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Blke36bimmer |
Re: Sinbad | ||
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off topic- but Herb!! I need your email address!! I have lost it and cant find it!!
Corey T. Shuman
www.goldrushexpeditions.com cshuman@goldrushexpeditions.com Proud Sponsor of: Utah Ghost Town and Mine Preservation Group ![]() |
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geogeek |
Re: Sinbad | ||
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Herb,
I'd love to go but can't. Have to work. A foot and knee injury knocked me down for a while. I used to live in Emery county and would enter the Sinbad area through the swell, then cross I-70. I don't have the book. I'll see if the local bookstore has it. Are you going to collect some stream sediments for later panning? I have a couple of days off and am going out with metal detector, shovel and pan, and camera today. Probably not a lot of panning because of frigid waters. I have permission to check out a suspect site on private land. The weather is supposed to be nice. Just getting out will be fun. By the way beer freezes solid at those temperatures. Definitely need higher test beverages. geogeek |
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Herb |
Sinbad | ||
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No, no plans on panning anything, just continuing the search for the site of those graves. It'll be awhile yet as it's still way too cold at night to be sleeping out there. I hope you find something worthwhile on your outing. Old beer trick, put it in the ice chest without the ice, keeps it from freezing but then Kentucky whiskey doesn't freeze at all.
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geogeek |
Re: Sinbad | ||
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Yeah, we tried the cooler trick with hot rocks from the fire. Too much baby sitting.
We did send Rich into town the beginning of the second day for whiskey, straw, and blankets. Whiskey in, straw under, and blankets over. We did have a steel bucket we turned upside down and placed a glowing piece of flaggy sandstone we heated in the fire on. I don't like that sentence. Oh well. The straw under the tent, the blankets over the tent, with a lantern and the hot rock in the tent was quite balmy until about 3 o'clock in the morning. Then the whiskey hit the bladder and the temp dropped. Buzz was the youngest and he got up and started a fire (again). It's amazing how much pee you can hold when you know just way freaking cold outside. It was so cold the side of a person not facing the fire got cold within seconds even with heavy clothing on. The side facing the fire was well done before each rotate. It was also amazing how much whiskey can be consumed before dawn and how long it took for one of those bricks we called rabbits to cook. Venus and the sun coming up was beautiful though. Yesterday was a good outing. I got to tour some neat country at three different sites, two of them guided by the owner. Fantastic pictures. Panned a little with no color. Panning became backseat after the rock art I was shown. Wow! I'll send some of the pics to Whyte Eagle to post. Some I agreed to keep under my belt. If you are going to delay your trip to Sinbad I may be able to schedule a trip. My wife is interested too. Working tomorrow too. Pics take a while to upload with my high gravity connection. Enjoy much, geogeek |
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Herb |
Sinbad | ||
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Funny as hell, boy have I been there. Like it is said, been there done that!! Fell into the river in Canada while fishing for salmon in December, got hypothermia, the heater in the motor home was on the fritz, woke up about 15 hours later in a camp site. My fishing buddies told me I had turned the coolest shade of blue they had ever seen, I guess I was close to dead, both of them weren't the sharpest tools in the shed. I would Imagine that the 1/2 pint of brandy I sucked down might have helped, since I'm still alive I guess it didn't hurt. Looking forward to the pics of your latest trip. I really want to get out but the cold the wife brought home to me last week from shopping in Richfield is really miserable, hopefully I'll get over it in a few days, a really nasty one, actually the first one in several years. I think I'll go for a drive tomorrow just to see if the world is still out there, maybe out to Cathedral Valley and that area. The wife is welcome, I'll bring mine, she likes camping. They can talk, we can walk.
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JYOU18 |
Re: Utah Placer Gold | ||
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GEOGEEK, I HAVE RELATIVES ON ALL SIDES FROM MOAB. MY DAD GREW UP ON THE MOUNTAIN "LA SAL" IN THE SUMMER AT A SAW MILL AND SPENT WINTERS IN TOWN. GRANDPA AND GRANDMA GREW PEACHES AFTER THE SAW MILL WENT OUT AND WORKED AT ATLAS MINERALS AND TEXAS GULF. STILL HAVE LOTS OF EXTENDED FAMILY AROUND THERE. LIKE TO GET MY DAD AND GO BACK AND MEET SOME OF THEM SOME DAY. NOW AS FOR THE CURRENT SUBJECT OF THE SWELL, I NOW RESIDE IN EMERY COUNTY AND LIKE TO EXPLORE THE SWELL. I READ THOMSONS ACCOUNT AND HAVE MADE SOME EXCURSIONS LOOKING FOR EVIDENCE. FUN PLACE OUT THERE, LOTS OF COUNTRY, LOTS OF HIDING SPOTS. LOTS OF OLD TRAILS, HOLES, CUTS. GOOD LUCK OUT THERE AND MAYBEE I WILL RUN INTO YOU GUYS ON THE TRAIL. JY
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CaverDaveUtah |
Drinking Alcohol and Trying to Stay Warm??? | ||
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Well, if it was cold outside and you were trying to stay warm, then drinking lots of alcohol wasn't exactly the brightest idea. Drinking alcohol might make you feel warm, but it actually cools your body down. Hot soup (or nothing at all) would have kept you warmer.
Just a thought... caverdaveutah |
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Herb |
Drinking | ||
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Dave, I now know that but back in the 70's I had yet to learn that. JYou18, I see that you are in Castledale, by any chance do you know Bret Rasmussion to your north in Huntington? He is a treasure/artifact hunter and knows a lot about the Swell area. I've been out with him in the past, he's really busy with his job right now, and he's a great guy. You should try to tie up with him and drag him out once in awhile. He sometimes posts here as Bret007, if you can find an old post you might leave him a PM. I'll send him an email and let him know to check here.
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geogeek |
Sinbad and the swell | ||
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I really wish I would have spent more time prospecting when I lived in Emery county. I know the geology doesn't seem right for gold. I was accepted to Utah State in the early 90's for a masters program in geology. I couldn't come up with all the money I needed so it didn't happen. I wanted to do my masters thesis on evaporites and where different metals would have precipitated in the sequence.
Even at parts per billion, dissolved gold in a large inland sea has to go somewhere during the evaporation process, and would be significant. I've discussed the thermodynamics with other geologists and chemists. Unfortunately more work just needs to be done. So far the verdict is a billion micro-environments. I'm still going to carry a pan with me and keep looking. JYou18, since you're in the area pack a pan with you when you go stomping. Or at least some baggies for stream sediment samples to pan later. (And let me know what you find Herb, that was funny. I can't believe your buddies just enjoyed the color show. We need to get JYou18 and CaverDave out on the swell too. That way if we get snockered they can drag us back to camp and we'll tell our wives it was all their fault. Do you think they'd just watch us turn blue? Seriously, Herb, JYou18, CaverDave what is your take on the evaporites? geogeek |
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JYOU18 |
Re: Sinbad and the swell | ||
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WELL, TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH I NEVER EVER THOUGHT ABOUT WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN IF THE OCEAN EVAPORATED AND LEFT ALL THE METALS BEHIND. I WILL THINK ABOUT IT AND ASK SOME PROS I KNOW, ONE IN IDAHO WHO MAY HAVE SOME INTERESTING THOUGHTS. WOULD THEY GIT TIED UP IN THE SALTS? OH AND A YOU BETTER BE ABLE TO BEAT ME TO THE COOLER AND I WILL NOT FIB TO ANYONES WIFE UNLESS FORCED TOO. HAH.
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CaverDaveUtah |
Evaporite Metals | ||
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I have also wondered about that question for years. What happens to the dissolved gold (or other non-salt-friendly metals) when seawater evaporates. I have looked at some of the chemistry, and even asked a few questions, but I've never found any conclusive answers.
Even though the abundance of gold in seawater is only at the part-per-billion level, there is a lot of seawater available, and when the water evaporates, it does have to go somewhere. To me, the most likely scenario is that it simply becomes a trace impurity in one or more of the later salts. The structure of table salt (halite) wouldn't accomodate much gold, but then again, there isn't much gold that needs to be accomodated. A few parts per billion gold, locked up within halite, would account for all of the original gold. If the gold doesn't go into halite, then it would either precipitate with some other phase, or it would continue to be concentrated into the residual brines (that's my hope). One way or the other, eventually, it has to come out of solution. It might do so gradually, as a trace component of one or more salts, or it might slowly and gradually precipitate as free gold or with metals oxides, or otherwise, it will continue to concentrate and be enriched into the residual solution. My hope, of course, is the latter. Do you have access to a potash mine, where we could take samples of the various evaporite minerals, and actually do some study on this question? I don't have access to any real funding, but we could certainly collect a few samples, and pay for a few assays ourselves. I wonder if the assay lab could handle assaying a chunk of salt properly? caverdaveutah |
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Herb |
Evaporites | ||
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Sounds good to me. I don't know of any potash mines but I do know where there are great concentrations of gypsum (CaSO4-2H2O). One spot is about 30-40' in diameter and height and is solid gypsum crystal plates, some so clear you can easily see thru them without distortion. It's like looking through a 1/2" piece of clear glass. Another location nearby also has the perfectly clear plates but it is not as large. The areas of the Swell that I am familiar with is the area to the east of Castledale/Ferrron which is mostly sand and sandstone but I have seen quite a bit of limestone out there also and what appears to be old abandoned copper mines. There is supposed to be some interesting formations at or near Cedar Mt. but I haven't been right up to it yet, just close. The other area is that to the south of Hwy 70 from Red's Canyon on the west to Hwy 24 on the east. All of that country is red dirt and red rock and quite a few old uranium mines. I heard a story that one of the guards at the mines in Temple Mt would suppliment his income by finding gold nuggets out there in his off time. I doubt that the story is true as that country just does not look geologically supportive of gold deposits. All sandstone. The northern portion, to the east of Castledale, is where the Old Spanish Trail is located. This is the branch that came from north of Greenriver to around Molen then south over Fishlake Mt and eventually to Las Vegas and on to CA if I recall correctly. There is allegedly another branch off the original Spanish Trail that crossed the Colorado River at Spanish Bottoms just north of Cataract Canyon and the junction of the Green River and followed the Green northward to an area somewhere East of Temple Mountain in the San Raphael desert then turned westward toward Temple Mt and went up South Temple Wash, continued northwest to Coal wash near Hwy 70 and then tied into the main trail in the vicinity of Molen. Backtracking, at the crossing of the Green River at Spanish Bottoms another branch heades to the west thru the land of standing men, over sunset pass, crossing the Dirty Devil River in the vicinity of the Burr Desert and then to the legendary Spanish mine, the Josephine De Martinique. Supposedly this portion of the trail served no purpose other than to supply the mine and to haul the gold back to Sante Fe.
To support this legend are the stories of campers finding crudely smelted gold bars in the sands of Recapture Creek down near Blanding where it is thought the Spanish pack trains crossed the river at that point. I'm ramblin too much, I'll leave it here for now. Too many legends, too little time. |
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JYOU18 |
Re: Evaporites | ||
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THER IS GYPSUM APLENTY BETWEEN MOORE AND I70 HEADING EAST ON THE MOORE CUTOFF ROAD. ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE ROAD IS A COMMERCIAL GYPSUM MINE AND A LITTLE FARTHER EAST AND ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE ROAD THERE ARE SOME DEEP WASHES THAT HAVE EXPOSED 30- 40 FT DEPOSITS OF THE STUFF. ON THE MOORE CUT OFF ROAD JUST BEFORE YOU DROP OFF INTO THE BOTTOM BEFORE THE SID AND CHARLEY ROAD TURN OFF, IF YOU LOOK UP ON THE BIG POINT TO THE SOUTH THERE IS A MONUMENT OUT ON THE END. I HAVE BEEN TOLD IT IS SPANISH AND HAS SOME KIND OF CORRESPONDENCE TO THE SNAKE CARVED ON THE ROCK LOCATED AT FREEMONT JUNCTION. THIS SPRING AS TIME PERMITS I AM GOING TO CHECK IT OUT AND SEE IF THIS IS TRUE. MAYBEE MORE MARKERS TO FIND. OH AND AS FAR AS THE EVAPORITES, I WAS TOLD THAT A COMPANY CALLED RARE EARTH SOMETHING OR THE OTHER EXTRACTS GOLD AND OTHER MINERALS FROM THE GREAT SALT LAKE AND SALT FLATS. GOLD MUST REMAIN AS AN IMPURITY IN THE SALTS???? MY DAD SAID THAT THEY DID THE SAME SORT OFTHING AT THE TEXAS GULF POTASH MINES BY MOAB WHERE HE WORKED WHEN HE WAS YOUNGER.
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geogeek |
Re: Evaporites | ||
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Thanks all,
I do wish I had the time and resources to pursue the answer to my own question. None of you were rambling. The same stuff I thought and still think but with a few twists. You probably will think this is rambling. The folks in the Bonneville basin should consider this. Many of the exposed evaporites are unaltered by burial loading. Yeah I know, ho hum. The buried stuff (Lisbon, Dissapointment, San Rafael Swell, and so on) do have metal deposits in the sections revealed at the anticlinal cores. That doesn't bother me. What I don't understand is the uranium associated with and dominating the other metals in many instances. I am rambling, I'm tired bear with me and jam me later. The buried stuff would exhaust unhappy metals at relatively low pressures. I only say that because I've never been buried a mile deep or more in sediment. Specifically, gold doesn't have too many anionic buddies in nature. It wants to go to a happy place with noble friends. This SEEMS to be the case with the gold I've found in upper sediments. It does have some base and glowing friends. I do wish I understood these mechanisms more. I wrote a qbasic program years ago to calculate aqueous activities. I didn't follow up because of the bird in the hand thing. The program was buggy too and didn't account for way too many variables. I do love being in the field though O.K. you're bored. I'm working on a stone building now and cut my left thumb at the back of the big knuckle with a diamond blade saturday. I duct taped it to immobile so it sticks out like a sore thumb, hmmm. Anyway it's hard to hold a chisel effectively and I keep smacking the same wounded spot with a 3 pound hammer. I need a beer. Enjoy. geogeek |
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geogeek |
Re: Evaporite Metals | ||
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I was kinda rattling on last night. CaverDave, I'm with you on the enriched brine at the end of the sequence. It does make sense for gold to hang out as a chloride under reasonable conditions. When I lived in Moab in the 60's TGS (Texas Gulf Sulfur) was still drift mining sylvite. I think most of the population had a hunk of it back then. My dad was involved with the construction of the processing plant. In the late 60's or the early 70's TGS went to an injection extraction system with evaporative ponds. Anyway, I didn't keep any sylvite. I should have. It's a hot item in the metaphysical world now. Yes, I think any reputable lab should be able to accurately analyze a chunk of salt. The digest would be a breeze.
Herb, your observation of the copper and uranium mines I think is strongly related and I hit on it in my previous post. I wouldn't poo poo those sandstones though. They would make a great host rock for remobilized metals from evaporites. And don't worry about rambling, very interesting. JYOU18, It doesn't surprise me that TGS was playing with the gold. The uranium mills did. In fact I've heard(true or not) that the uranium mills paid operating costs with gold and the uranium was pure profit. Well, I have to go beat on my thumb again. Have a great day. geogeek |
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Herb |
Uranium | ||
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Of all the uranium mines I have been to I've only gone into two of them and not very far at that. I've heard stories of radon gas forming in them. In one of them on the east side of the Henry Mts along Crescent Creek the uranium is in petrified wood buried in the sandstone. I have a Victoreen CDV-700 gieger counter and that stuff will absolutely slam the needle against the peg. I brought a piece of it home to see if it would floresce at night but the wife put it somewhere in her rock garden and I never found it again. The next time I'm out there I'll get another sample. Gold has been found that creek too, I think there are still valid claims along parts of it. Not far from there, further up the mountain and to the north is an area called copper benches, I assume someone found copper up there. The Henry Mountains are rather a strange bunch of rocks. See www.onlineutah.com/henrym...tory.shtml
Supposedly the uranium that Madam Curie used in her experiment in France came from mines on the eastern slopes of the Henrys in an area called the Trachyte. There are old Vanadium mines around there also. |
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JYOU18 |
Re: Uranium | ||
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COOL, I WENT POKING AROUND CRESCENT CREEK A WHILE BACK, THERE ARE SEVERAL ACTIVE CLAIMS UP THERE AND THEY ARE POSTED AS NO PROSPECTING. THERE WAS A SHORT PEICE OF CREEK BOTTOM THAT SAID OPEN TO THE PUBLIC BUT IT LOOKED LIKE IT HAD BEEN WORKED OVER REAL GOOD. LIKE TO GO BACK WITH MY METAL DETECTOR AND TAKE A HIKE. MAYBEE THIS YEAR AROUND JUNE I THINK. CHECK OUT GOLDRUSH EXPEDITIONS WEB SIGHT. SEEMS LIKE THIS COREY SHUMAN THAT RUNS THIS OUTFIT KNOWS A BIT ABOUT THE HENRYS. I HAVE DONE A BIT OF RESEARCH ABOUT EAGLE CITY AND SOME OF THE HERMITS THAT LIVED UP THERE FOR YEARS. SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF HISTORY AND ALOT MISSING ABOUT THESE MOUNTAINS. THEY WERE THE LAST MAJOR MOUNTAINS TO BE MAPPED IN THE CONTINENTAL US. NOW I AM RAMBLING. GOOD DAY
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Bret007 |
Re: Uranium | ||
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Hey Geogeek, have you messed arround with the mancos (not sure of the spelling) shale? We have always called it blue shale. There has been a bunch of money spent trying to get the gold out of it. It is there but no one has been able to get it out.
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geogeek |
Re: Uranium | ||
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I can't keep looking back with IwishIwouldahadda. This the first group in a long time that doesn't blunt me like I'm in cartoon land though.
Herb, radon won't hurt you. When it decays to polonium it will really screw you up though. That was a good read on that link you posted. The Henry's have very few of my footprints. I knew Madam Curie got her uranium from the southwest US, but I wasn't sure where. JYOU18, Corey does have a grip on Utah geography and geology. I just haven't been able to participate in the scheduled trips. If you get chance to go sometime, do go. Do I get a backpat for the plug Corey. To clarify, Corey and I have only shared a couple of emails, and some banter on this discussion board. Bret, yes, Mancos. I knew a chemist 20 years ago that did some work with the gold in the Mancos shale. I don't think she is still alive. She was quite old when we discussed it then. Short and sweet, chromium was in the way. Have a great day, geogeek |
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JYOU18 |
Re: Uranium | ||
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BRET007, I BELIVE THERE IS A PAMPLET PUT OUT BY THE STATE OF UTAH THAT DEALS WITH THE MANCOS AND GOLD. I WAS GOING TO ORDER IT ONE TIME BUT I NEVER DID. ANYBODY ELSE READ IT? JY
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